• 62755.1
• 
• observer
• Tuesday, 31 January 2012 3:59:39 GMT

difficult situation

Difficult situation. It sucks not being taken seriously.

I didn't read the earlier thread, so sorry if any of this repeats earlier thoughts, but here are some suggestions. Obviously not all may be relevant to your situation or feel like the right thing to do, but for what it's worth:

1. Sometimes it's too easy just to be easy-going and shrug things off when people take the piss. Even if it's uncomfortable at first, I'd suggest just a grimace and pointedly getting back to your work when your co-workers start up. Most people should take the hint, unless they're sociopaths (not that I'm ruling that out).

2. If possible, and if your boss is basically a decent sort, it might be worth taking up some of other things you mentioned with him/her directly. Point out that other people have been promoted, that you have some ambition (if you do), that you'd like more responsibility, that the work you've done recently shows you're capable of it, etc. Don't push it or over-sell it, but make it clear you're a serious person.

3. Find rewarding things outside of work that matter to you and get more involved in them. The physical activity is good, but I find you can sometimes hit a plateau after a couple of months. So learn to play an instrument (but don't start a band!), learn to draw or learn a language, start to write--not too much, just a little a day, about anything you find interesting--or find something new and difficult to read. Try to combine that stuff with the physical activity. See if any of that makes things at work seem less overwhelming.

Hope none of that is too presumptuous. Like I said, I very much sympathise.

• 62755.2
• 
• Shell
• Tuesday, 31 January 2012 9:39:10 GMT

Hmm

it sounds to me like your boss will give you anything to do and you will do it without complaining to him/her about it and get it done without recognition and it looks like the others are picking up on it. I think you need to put them taking the piss out of you on the back burner because I don't think this is really the issue, the real issue is everyone else being promoted and/or given a raise.

I think if you go in guns blazing you might not get anywhere and they might just think you're overly sensitive. You need to just chase after getting either recognition or a raise which is recognition anyway. Have a meeting with your boss and say I feel I'm doing enough work to warrant a raise and I'm starting to feel under appreciated and see how you go. If it's a no you've to question if you should change jobs. It sounds like you are in a busy area anyway so you are more likely to find another job. Don't threaten them with this of course but if they say no I'd start looking elsewhere.

• 62755.3
• 
• Kez
• Tuesday, 31 January 2012 9:57:50 GMT

In my experience

places like this with a shitty atmosphere and management who are out of touch with what is really happening in the office and who is responsible for what are not worth sticking with.

It's funny what you put up with and what you think is "normal" office behaviour. I've done it in the past. You just think it's part of the game and you're being unduly difficult or unreasonable.

I would definitely look elsewhere. If you're working hard, being unappreciated and very unhappy it is a bit of a no brainer I think.

Work doesn't have to be like that. I worked somewhere, where there was a secretary who, because she worked there 13 years, absolutely ran the show and bullied everyone else and the management were so reluctant to deal with her they just let her carry on. Absolutely appalling when you think about it.

When I left and worked somewhere else - a similar company with a similar set up - I was absolutely shocked to find that people were nice and fair and appreciated you. I couldn't get over it. It sounds like I'm exaggerating but I really am not.

You sounds really fed up and I think dealing with it in-house aint gonna change much. Do yourself a favour and find a company that appreciates you.

• 62755.4
• 
• Sherri
• Tuesday, 31 January 2012 13:44:12 GMT

work to live

Don't let work define you as a person first off. That's the huge mistake I think a lot of us make. Work should just be a catalyst to enjoying the things that really matter -- family, friends, entertainment, vacations, and so on. If your boss is someone you think is approachable and you can trust, then talk to him about your situation -- you deserve a raise or promotion based on your recent performance. However, if you don't think talking to him would be any use, then maybe it is time to look for another job. Also, if you feel like you're being taken advantage of but never voice your complaints, then the behavior just perpetuates and you'll just build resentments over time. If you just keep accepting this treatment, then noone wins. Also, learn to say no even at work. If you are accepting assignment but not getting paid or recognized for your effort, like Kez said, that's a no brainer!! Good luck with it. Not sure if there's a human resources manager there but if you feel like you're being picked on by others maybe it warrant talking to HR as well.

• 62755.5
• 
• milton waddams
• Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:06:52 GMT

do like

I did when they took my stapler, and put my desk where I couldn't see the squirrels. Burn the place to the ground.

• 62755.6
• 
• Dr. R
• Tuesday, 31 January 2012 18:59:55 GMT

Ditto

If you really like this job and want to stay, I would suggest the following:

1. When people make fun of you (or whatever they do) let them know through body language that you don't appreciate it. If they don't get it after about a week- say out loud that you don't appreciate being disrespected like that. If they are smart and if they respect you, they will stop.

2. Confront your boss but be prepared. Go in with examples of the work you have done, the amount of time you spent on it, etc. (maybe even type up a list) so that you can counter any argument. Also, ask how promotions are handled (how are they awarded, etc.) then, ask when you might expect one (this will open up the conversation without saying "hey, everyone else has one, why not me?" which may not sound great to your boss). Again, hearing about how promotions are handled will allow you to point out why you deserve one (and I think you do deserve one)- bottom line, GO IN PREPARED WITH DOCUMENTATION OF YOUR SUCCESS.

3. It sounds like your work life is affecting your emotional state- I've been there. If you can't take care of the problems with work, look for another job.

• 62755.7
• 
• Fola
• Tuesday, 31 January 2012 19:09:49 GMT

Sometimes

when you are in these situations you have to ask yourself, who is giving me the hardest time. Those people, or me? Am I being nice to myself? Do I say, well done me for working so hard, and doing such a good job,it will stand to me when I move to the next job; or am I looking to them to reassure me because I am so hard on myself?

I know I give myself a hard time sometimes, and just changing thinking patterns can change the way people perceive you (or arm yourself better to deal with certain people).

Being excessively angry and frustrated will not do yourself any favours. (Even if its just in your head) On the other hand, saying, this is what I want in life, other people may want different things, it is ok to ask. If I do so in a positive way, I may even get the result I wish for.


You sound like someone who comes from a similar background as me, where hard work is valued. But perhaps where you are working, other things are valued more. For instance, directly asking for a raise can be seen as ambitious and confident. Also, interacting with others, and displaying leadership skills with people, is what some reward when they give pay rises. (these people can be perceived as lazy by hard workers)


Its an office culture thing though, and if you dont respect what they reward, (which seems like you dont) then you should be working with people you do respect, for your sake and theirs.

If I were you, I think it would be reasonable to talk to your boss, (or the person over him/her) Just say you d like a chat, better if its not confrontational.

You can outline how hard you have worked, that you enjoy the work, and show a record of the long hours, and if you are happy enough to continue with the long hours, say so, but ask for a bonus or a rise to reflect your commitment.

If you are working as hard as you say, they wont want to lose you.

Otherwise, what Kez says. But if you can find some way of empowering yourself before you leave this place, I think you will feel better about yourself.

• 62755.8
• 
• Marg
• Tuesday, 31 January 2012 19:44:14 GMT

love to help

but I've been fired from every job I ever had. No kidding. I happily work for myself now.

Must say that I'm fascinated by all the responses, though. Maybe I would have kept my jobs if I knew all that. ;o)

• 62755.9
• 
• dr. jimmy webb
• Wednesday, 01 February 2012 4:20:04 GMT

thanks

for taking the time to reply everyone and giving me some perspective.

just to clarify something that i should have pointed out in the first post that i do respect my boss the majority of time, same with coworkers. new job hasn't been ruled out though..

having said that, i'm confused by by Fola's statement:

"You sound like someone who comes from a similar background as me, where hard work is valued. But perhaps where you are working, other things are valued more. For instance, directly asking for a raise can be seen as ambitious and confident. Also, interacting with others, and displaying leadership skills with people, is what some reward when they give pay rises. (these people can be perceived as lazy by hard workers)


Its an office culture thing though, and if you dont respect what they reward, (which seems like you dont) then you should be working with people you do respect, for your sake and theirs."

i don't know what you mean. are you saying that hard work is valued by giving more responsiblities without pay?

sorry, that's not to sound snotty. i just don't get your point.

• 62755.10
• 
• Kez
• Wednesday, 01 February 2012 12:46:23 GMT

Well...

I think Fola is saying - and it sounds similar to where I have worked before – is that some companies are more favourable to those who show a certain amount of ambition and - not quite ruthlessness – not the exact word I’m looking for but that sort of attitude to negotiate themselves a better deal in terms of pay, etc.

I knew a colleague, a good mate of mine, who was quite young, only in his early twenties and he started in the company as an admin assistant for 2 weeks and basically knocked on everyone’s door, introduced himself, got to know everyone, worked silly hours and then eventually negotiated himself a better wage, better position in a new role by walking into one of the Director’s office and saying “I’m worth more than this, give me a job”. OK not exactly like that but something along those lines.

A lot of people resented him doing it and it was actually all the people who were in the really shit jobs who hated the place. I was somewhere in between. I would never do it myself and hated the place too but I admired his guts. I’m just not built like that though. I don’t have the confidence, inclination or ambition but it definitely impressed the right people.

• 62755.11
• 
• Fola
• Wednesday, 01 February 2012 23:05:58 GMT

Yes

I am saying that hard work is not always rewarded, simply because it is not always valued.

It depends on the organisation...

It sounds like you are working very hard though dr jimmy, and I think you deserve a pay rise based on your productivity alone...

I know from my own past that I rarely got pay rises, no matter how hard I worked, because I never asked for them....

If I wanted a pay rise, inevitably I had to move jobs. For some reason I found it easier to negotiate with people who didnt know me...

Ps am only offering an opinion or viewpoint, only you know your own situation and know how best to deal with it, even if you are using us as a soundboard

• 62755.12
• 
• Shell
• Thursday, 02 February 2012 9:39:35 GMT

I think

a lot of people (especially Irish people and women) are nervous about asking for pay rises but you just have to do it. I'm renegotiating my contract now and my boss suggested I ask HR for a pay rise too. I spoke to some others about it and they told me that it wouldn't be fair on all the other people who just sign what's given to them and don't get a pay rise. Isn't that crazy though? If you don't ask you won't get anything and that's for sure. If they say no I'm still going to sign it but feck it, it's worth it to ask!

• 62755.13
• 
• Fola
• Thursday, 02 February 2012 11:48:10 GMT

The great thing

for your company dr jimmy is that they seem to be in a good position financially. Easier to negotiate if the money is flowing.

I would say you are ambitious too, if you are working so hard. So really am just asking the question, even if you like your co-workers and employers do you share the same values?

Maybe deep down you do. Maybe there is another reason they have given others pay rises based on years of service or something else that is off my radar.

But it would be good to talk to a senior person, and just say you are happy to work hard but would ultimately like to see rewards for it, and ask what you can do or what the company likes to reward etc.

• 62755.14
• 
• Kez
• Friday, 03 February 2012 9:39:52 GMT

It's a weird attitude isn't it

That people resent other people for going out on a limb to ask for more money. Like Shell says, if you don't ask, you don't get.

It is the worst part of a job, though, asking for momre money. I've always shirked it but thankfully this time round, moving to a new department I've managed to negotiate my wage up a bit more. Not a huge amount but enough to cover the increase in train fares that we were slapped with this year, so job's a good un.

But yes as Fola pointed out it depends on how well a company is doing. If they're making lay offs then obviously not a good time but if they're a thriving business and you're working hard then go for it.

• 62755.15
• 
• nika
• Saturday, 04 February 2012 1:12:33 GMT

Jimmy, hard work is

not too often valued unfortunately...i've been there and done that before where you are now; busting my ass and not getting anything apart from maybe a few nice empty words... while it is right saying that we don't live to work, in the end you do spend most of your adult life doing your job. You spend more time with it than with your family or partner, so it is very important to get that sorted otherwise it will get you down and no hobbies or exercise will help the depressed state which it causes in you in the long run.

You must be careful with working long hours...I see many people in our office doing that too and no matter how smart they are (and working hard) they definitely not treated seriously or even if they are, they aren't the ones that are being promoted or being rewarded.

You need to learn to say no. You need to sit down and talk to your boss and not always agree with him. Expressing your needs (in a professional manner) will make them not wanting to walk all over you. Shell is right about not throwing the toys out of the pram - that will just cause them to gossip, laugh at you or make you feel excluded in the office social circles ...I do have a temper too, so I can relate to that and while I would not have the tiniest problem to be a down right bitch and tell people to fuck off or cut them out (cause IMHO life is way too short for shit, small or big) in an office environment you can't and shouldn't do that. You are with those people 35-40 hours a week, so unless you are prepared to get up and leave anytime soon, I’d rather bite the bullet on the temper tantrum no matter how right you actually are. If you wanna leave then let it loose on them dude and enjoy by no means!

I'd say give it a few months and try to change your attitude step by step. Your attitude towards yourself. Cause from what you said there it’s obvious that you have to start to put urself first. Sit down with your boss and politely have a chat with him/her about your wants/needs/situation. Make an effort to stand up at 6 PM on some days of the week and leave even if you had some work left over…if it’s a very deadline focused job (projects et all) then do tell your supervisor about the fact that it requires more input than the normal hours. Don't fool yourself into the thought that just because they see you sending emails at 9 pm they will think how hard Jimmy works or it will sink in for them and will trigger appreciation..tell them! even if you just mention it as a fact and not as a complaint or u just include it into your report.

as for the newbie slagging..I can't stand people who bully others and then conveniently say that ‘oh, it's a bit of slagging and u can’t take a joke’..yada yada yada..Fuck that. That is my friend called bullying, the most coward kind, especially if you expressed it before that you weren't comfortable with it even if it was a "joke".
I wouldn't necessarily confront them about this or tell them how you feel about it unless the people you work with are actually nice and do not hang out in cliques in which you don't belong to because if they do it will just have the similar effects as throwing the toys out of the pram. Also I find that most of the time when these people are told/asked nicely to stop because it actually hurts one's feeling, they actually do not have the I.Q. to grab that concept at all (because ‘OMG it’s a joke’), so you’re just wasting your time...I would do the exact same thing to them dude..find their weak point (very easy thing to do, just observe, engage and listen) and just 'joke' (of course in the limits of not being rude or vicious and not saying anything that could be used against you..)...get creative with learning how to aim a good sting and drive it in.. it is doable without getting any actual dirt on yourself...I can assure you after a few hits they will shut up. Ignoring it can work as well, though that is not a rule of thumb in my experience and it really depends on the people.

Also, most important lesson I’ve learnt is to NEVER give a flying fuck about what your co-workers think of you if you do this or do that, or how and what they talk about you during their coffee breaks. They are not ur close friends or family.It is true that people who shy away from ambition and taking care of themselves professionally will rarely get anywhere in life or will have to jump more hoops to get there (unless they are extremely talented, well connected or lucky). You don’t need to be a born competitive by nature or be cheeky (though cheeky does work and considered an asset). Ambition is a skill you can develop and you need to learn it for your OWN sake otherwise in ten year’s time you will still be sitting at that desk, maybe with a bit of a modest pay rise, keep telling to yourself that I’m not the ambitious type and that it’s fine...eventually you’ll get so comfortable with it that you will not know how to change it and it won’t even matter because by that stage and at that age u won’t even have guts to take the risks needed anyway. Take this form someone who is ambitious and loved competition by nature..Even for me it gets harder the older I get and I do believe if you don't work at it then it will slowly slip away..Don't get me wrong:you don’t need to go all Steve Jobs on ambition just limit it to what you want to achieve professionally for yourself, may it be a pay rise, opening a cake shop, or become a manager. Also don’t expect results to happen from one day to another. That alone equals failure. Getting a bit of ambition into you is more often a hit and miss game, but those misses will actually teach you the lessons you need. Just try to push yourself out of the comfort zone! little by little, in your own space.. It will be frustrating, it will be stressful, you will not want to do it but that is truly the only way forward. And yes, don’t have high expectations that people will love you for it. If someone stands out of the herd he/she will not be liked for it..i’m sure you know that too, it goes way back to the crèche playground times…but remember; you are not at work to get brownie points from your co-workers or be Mr. Office Popular..those are life goals that belong to high school..Always be nice to peeps, be as social as common/business sense would require (there is nothing wrong with getting on the good side of your boss, going up to them and initiate causal conversations..that is not called sucking up, it's called being strategic and nice), have the casual chat with them but mainly just do your job.

Once you start paying attention to how you might be perceived because of your competitive or ambitious nature, it will undermine your own confidence big time. Of course they will hate you for it! They are the people who’d die to get there,to be able to do it not just daydream about it, but they simply don’t have the guts, so all they are left are hate, gossip and jealousy…so just let them hate, gossip and to be jealous..those things never have gotten anyone anywhere

Sorry for the long post and for the opinion which might seem very cold-hearted and blunt but I did go through this before Jimmy and it took long to figure out the rules of the game……and while by all means I have NOT figured it out all, I’m more confident now with how I’m playing it…so I hope some of it will help...it’s sounds very clichéd and simple but it works..seriously, once you start focus on yourself you’ll get rid of loads of unnecessary stress…once you start working on how to improve things for yourself in your career you will find the appreciation in yourself FOR yourself and the confidence to start changing the playing field..you working hard is a noble thing and you should be proud of yourself but standing up for yourself and your goals is what will actually make you feel appreciated in front of yourself ....once you do that you know that you don't just do the talk (feeling down and telling people how bad it is) but you actually do the walk (trying your best to make a change)

just make sure not to give up if things not work out all rosy straight away..maybe you wont get a pay rise.. maybe the co-workers will not change, maybe you will need to think about getting a new job...and that is cool too,it will not be the end of the world, so don't let the little bumps take over..have a day of pity about it then get back into the ring

• 62755.16
• 
• O'know
• Wednesday, 08 February 2012 9:02:14 GMT

What you

must bear in mind is that when you consider the enormity of space and time, everything you have done or could possibly do is pointless - or indeed anything anyone has ever or will do is pointless. In fact in the scheme of things the entire accomplishments of man and all our predecessors is irrelevant.